Outline of steps to take in forming the Governing Body

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Re: Outline of steps to take in forming the Governing Body

Post  Username on Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:08 am

That's because you actually need to produce something worthwhile that other people can use in the world, in order to gain respect.

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Re: Outline of steps to take in forming the Governing Body

Post  Mayflow on Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:50 am

kriswest wrote:Military/ police
health
education
trade
immigration
technology/science
Taxes



Anyone? Pick a topic and start a thread no repeats, lets keep one thread per subject and that way it will be easier to review.
Laughing So far this reminds me of typical Govermnet employees, if we were employed by the people as representatives we would have wasted about a million in tax dollars so far. is that really what we want to do? Can't we do better?


Ok, I will start with the military and police. Hierarchy, following and giving orders and using violence to enforce the will of the upper enforcers - Ideally it would be about helping and protecting and creating fairness of all of us on an equal basis, but how to accomplish this with force? The problem to me starts with the get go on this. Only people who want to be controlled and also follow and then force others to follow are going to go here.... of course, there are exceptions to this because many will join militaries out of no choice but to die, or because they need the securities and money. People in the police or military are there because they either want to control others or want to be controlled by others or they were just plain forced to be there, or just want the security offered. Anyone wanting to rule by physical or even psychological force is in my opinion a fearful person, and for that very reason, those not themselves ruled by fear just won't be able to be controlled by them. That's so good, isn't it? People who cannot be ruled by fear are so totally beautiful, yes? Smile
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Re: Outline of steps to take in forming the Governing Body

Post  Username on Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:04 am

Mayflow wrote:People who cannot be ruled by fear are so totally beautiful, yes? Smile
This is one of the stupidest sentences I've ever read in my entire life.

In your proposed anarchic society, where bands of men with guns roam around, raping women and killing men in their way, I'm pretty fucking certain you would be one of the first casualties.

Stupid people are very willing to die for the sake of their ignorance, including you. You're living in la-la-land, in your head.

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Re: Outline of steps to take in forming the Governing Body

Post  kriswest on Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:03 pm

Mayflow wrote:
kriswest wrote:Military/ police
health
education
trade
immigration
technology/science
Taxes



Anyone? Pick a topic and start a thread no repeats, lets keep one thread per subject and that way it will be easier to review.
Laughing So far this reminds me of typical Govermnet employees, if we were employed by the people as representatives we would have wasted about a million in tax dollars so far. is that really what we want to do? Can't we do better?


Ok, I will start with the military and police. Hierarchy, following and giving orders and using violence to enforce the will of the upper enforcers - Ideally it would be about helping and protecting and creating fairness of all of us on an equal basis, but how to accomplish this with force? The problem to me starts with the get go on this. Only people who want to be controlled and also follow and then force others to follow are going to go here.... of course, there are exceptions to this because many will join militaries out of no choice but to die, or because they need the securities and money. People in the police or military are there because they either want to control others or want to be controlled by others or they were just plain forced to be there, or just want the security offered. Anyone wanting to rule by physical or even psychological force is in my opinion a fearful person, and for that very reason, those not themselves ruled by fear just won't be able to be controlled by them. That's so good, isn't it? People who cannot be ruled by fear are so totally beautiful, yes? Smile

Ahh good, I will pick citizenship if that is Ok with folks???

Oh and User , I am not an admin here. You should know that by now. I am just trying to hijack the empty space for this experiment so until an admin comes by and says boo WTH.

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re. Revolution in Thought.

Post  thedoc on Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:03 pm

Mayflow and Kris, Here is a pretty good assment of peacegirl and the book,

posted by Vivisectus

Re: A revolution in thought

"If we are talking about a philosophy, or a scientific discovery, then we need to deal with the objections - in the case of my first objection, we need to show how and why the removal of blame must lead to the elimination of justification, and that it is justification alone that allows a person to harm another person without provocation, for unless we show these things, we have not dealt with the problem of evil. If I have missed the relevant explanation in the text somehow, please point it out. If there is no relevant explanation in the text, but you can explain why my objection is not valid, then please let me know.

If in stead we are dealing with a religious text, however, then such criticisms do not apply - it is simply an article of faith, and believing that all justification is caused by blame and that without justification there can be no harmful deeds is one of things one must believe to be a follower of Lessanism, just as the belief in original sin is an article of faith for Catholics.

But in that case there is little point in discussing the correctness of Lessans thinking, and we should only discuss whether or not we feel it would be desirable for him to be right. A discussion of a religion on scientific grounds is always very short, since there is no scientific reason that I know of to believe any religion to be true. But that does not mean that it needs to be undesirable to believe in a religion - it can have benefits. Why it would be good for people to believe and follow Lessans ideas as you do should then be the topic of our discussions.

So I think you must make up your mind, and decide if we are to view this as a religious belief, or a philosophy / scientific discovery."

I am inclined to see her presentation as a religious belief.

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Re: Outline of steps to take in forming the Governing Body

Post  kriswest on Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:57 pm

It sounds more philosophy then religion, and rather empty at that. People do things for reasons other than justification, unless you want to put everything under the heading of justification. Is an action justified?? Morally or ethically. If someone shoots and kills my kid because my kid ran over their foot with his car then I know I am justified to to put that person 6' under with rabid brutality. I could follow blame and go shoot the CEO of the comapny that made the car or the crappy shoes. but really where is blame in all of that? No where. Its all natural reaction. Person in severe pain grabs a gun and kills his percieved attacker, I being rather maternal kill the person that killed my kid. People harm and do harm based on natural survival instincts. Instincts can run amok. I can quite probably prove this with almost any scenario anyone chooses to put up here.

If you want to know why we do crap we do then just look to the animal world. I would say we are just a complex society of earthling animals. We are not that abnormal.
Animals behave in ways similar to us when it comes to this. We can suppress our animalness or we can work with it. It sounds far less dangerous to work with it.

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Re: Outline of steps to take in forming the Governing Body

Post  Mayflow on Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:59 pm

When a human is first born, it acts out of embedded consciousness (purely instinctive and subconscious only.)

Same with animals.

In time both other animals and humans learn to provide for physical needs to survive.

I'm not sure that animals can go beyond the embedded subconscious drives though.

I am not saying that a lot of humans do either, but it seems to me we can.

Philosophizing, pondering, intentionally intending, meditating, reading, learning, writing are traits of development of human awareness. Belief is HUGE because thoughts and beliefs create things. In modern quantum physics we see that what we think of as matter and energy are more like a quantum soup of infinite potential and are influenced by consciousness and awareness. Remember that emotions and other subconscious complexes can be thought of as matter and energy. I don't know how many if any will follow this logic jump, but it means that self aware beings can reprogram not only their embedded programs (basic operating systems), but also affect everything everywhere.
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Re: Outline of steps to take in forming the Governing Body

Post  kriswest on Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:02 pm

True but on that, it would be impossible to get the majority of humans to do so. Too many variables in nature and nurture throughout the world. Its hard enough to get people to disagree peacefully without trying to get them to make such a jump. The only way to do so is to start tweaking genes invitro. In 6 or so generations you may have such humans. Otherwise I can't see it. I can see that supressing ourselves to such extents has does and will cause severe mental problems. You would have to remove all competition. To suppress that, will cause forms of insanity.

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Re: Outline of steps to take in forming the Governing Body

Post  Mayflow on Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:23 pm

Well, I don't see any quick fix to suddenly enlighten the entire human species much less the animal realm, but I am in the corner of quantum physics meets the Buddha. This is a quantum shift of noticeable magnitude.

As I see it at present, the best way to conquer ignorance is to increase understanding whether we are doing this within or whether we are offering this to others. The differentiation of self and other is beautiful, but I also think of it as beautiful (for some, not so beautiful) playfun. So, what I do unto others, I do unto myself. Others also play by those same rules. I believe the Universe is completely fair.
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Re: Outline of steps to take in forming the Governing Body

Post  kriswest on Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:21 pm

Foreign student exchange is one of the best programs out there for this , it is woefully underfunded, horribly ignored it also needs to be expanded to include others rather than just students. I would like to see it expanded to work environments and community programs. Foreign exchange can be a beginning.

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Re: Outline of steps to take in forming the Governing Body

Post  Mayflow on Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:47 pm

kriswest wrote:Foreign student exchange is one of the best programs out there for this , it is woefully underfunded, horribly ignored it also needs to be expanded to include others rather than just students. I would like to see it expanded to work environments and community programs. Foreign exchange can be a beginning.

Kris, I think you are on to something here, and I think it is the way of the future of mankind. With modern technology of the internet and such, man is becoming globalized which expands minds to correlate with many other minds. Tyrannys are falling swiftly to the wayside. This is I tell you, a mental and physical tsunami!

http://onlinecasinosuite.com/casino-blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/tiananmen-square-protesto-0011.jpg

How many men does it take to change the world? Answer = 1.
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Re: Outline of steps to take in forming the Governing Body

Post  thedoc on Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:52 am

Foreign exchange is a good way to homogenize the whole world so that a global government might have a chance of working. Now there are just too many different cultures with different goals and beliefs. To loose all the diversity of mankind would be a tragedy that I do not aprove. Some day when we all look alike, act alike, and think alike, this may be do-able, but till then we are stuck with individual governments for different peoples, and these governments will need to work out the differences. A world government that will accomidate all the variety would be so tenuous as to be ineffective at bringing world population together. The only structure that will work is a very general world gov. overseeing very different regional gov.'s but without interfering with local affairs. The first step is to determine just how varied these local gov. are to know how loose a world gov. needs to be.

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Re: Outline of steps to take in forming the Governing Body

Post  kriswest on Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:11 pm

I was thinking not about homogenizing but understanding, leaving your comfort zone and really learning to work with others. Once a different culture is understood it can be accepted not feared. I to would not want everyone the same. I would on the other hand have respect for differences.
Foreign exchange can be brought into citizenship?????

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Re: Outline of steps to take in forming the Governing Body

Post  thedoc on Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:01 pm

kriswest wrote:. Once a different culture is understood it can be accepted not feared.

This is the problem, too many times understanding does not lead to acceptance but more hostility and hatred. Many of the worlds adversaries know and understand each other, and that is the cause of the conflict. The terrorists groups who are trying to destroy the US, do so because they understand that we promote freedom of thought, and that is exactly what they do not want. They are comitted to controlling what their followers know and think, and Americas freedom of thought is a threat to their control.

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Re: Outline of steps to take in forming the Governing Body

Post  kriswest on Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:02 pm

Doc, when you a take a person out of their evvironment they lose control most tend to try and fit in some how some way. I am not talking just peaceful people being exchanged that sort of is not really needed. Its those that have issues that need the exchange. Most cling to hatred because they do not know any different. Its not the leaders that count in this, its the followers . If you can't cut the head off the snake then you crush the body. The controller cannot change, the controlled can.

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Re: Outline of steps to take in forming the Governing Body

Post  Mayflow on Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:30 am

kriswest wrote:Doc, when you a take a person out of their evvironment they lose control most tend to try and fit in some how some way. I am not talking just peaceful people being exchanged that sort of is not really needed. Its those that have issues that need the exchange. Most cling to hatred because they do not know any different. Its not the leaders that count in this, its the followers . If you can't cut the head off the snake then you crush the body. The controller cannot change, the controlled can.

I see it in the contrary way. Not to invade on Henry's contracontrarian record here, but to put my thoughts in possible phase. Controllers especially those in self-control modes on a continual basis are the more likely to be able to shift and change and even shapeshift, whereas the followers are likely of less likely ilk to be able to flow and shift, but just follow outworn fallacies which cause them pain and sufferings and yet are not yet able to see they have the freedom to be that way, but also the freedom to grow and learn in completely new ways.
I am not talking about ordinary government leaders here but about ones being capable of total rocket science. These will be the leaders, the new leaders of a radically new world to come. They actually started with Plato and Aristotle and Newton and Einstein, and now with E Witten and his string theory, and modern quantum physics> Forcing physical harm and ones own rules unto others has little to do with exploring the mind and all it can do and can be.
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Re: Outline of steps to take in forming the Governing Body

Post  kriswest on Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:45 pm

You are correct of course but only if the leader is not entrenched or a fanatic. Then they have built a whole world around them much like an immovable object.

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Re: Outline of steps to take in forming the Governing Body

Post  kriswest on Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:44 pm

Testing pc dead using mobile having tech issues with this damn thing

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Re: Outline of steps to take in forming the Governing Body

Post  kriswest on Wed May 04, 2011 2:43 pm

Whhohoo Puter is back anyone still here?

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still here

Post  thedoc on Wed May 04, 2011 4:06 pm

Yup, been here, no-one else posting for several days.

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Re: Outline of steps to take in forming the Governing Body

Post  thedoc on Wed May 04, 2011 5:11 pm

kriswest wrote:Doc, when you a take a person out of their evvironment they lose control most tend to try and fit in some how some way. I am not talking just peaceful people being exchanged that sort of is not really needed. Its those that have issues that need the exchange. Most cling to hatred because they do not know any different. Its not the leaders that count in this, its the followers . If you can't cut the head off the snake then you crush the body. The controller cannot change, the controlled can.

Kris, I was not refering to taking someone out of their environment, many of the conflicts involve populations in conflict with other populations that are still in the place where they have always lived, some people just don't like their neighbors.

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Re: Outline of steps to take in forming the Governing Body

Post  kriswest on Wed May 04, 2011 9:03 pm

There is always a resolution and that always includes education.

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Re: Outline of steps to take in forming the Governing Body

Post  thedoc on Thu May 05, 2011 12:28 am

Education requires a willing student, you cannot force feed information to someone who does not want to know. I've been there it does not work.

Look at the thread 'A Revolution in thought' on Dissident Philosophy. Peacegirl has refused to be educated on anything that might contradict her fathers work. On 'Freethought forum' the thread has gone 134 pages with no progress at all. There have numerous other forums before this.

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Re: Outline of steps to take in forming the Governing Body

Post  Mayflow on Thu May 05, 2011 1:31 am

thedoc wrote:Education requires a willing student, you cannot force feed information to someone who does not want to know. I've been there it does not work.

Look at the thread 'A Revolution in thought' on Dissident Philosophy. Peacegirl has refused to be educated on anything that might contradict her fathers work. On 'Freethought forum' the thread has gone 134 pages with no progress at all. There have numerous other forums before this.

O so it was her father's work? It's actually rather nice I think. Maybe too naive by your own predispositions, but it seems nicer to me than today's killing others makes us superpowers stuff. Her dad was maybe unto something you know? As a Goddess, I will tribute this. cheers
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Re: Outline of steps to take in forming the Governing Body

Post  thedoc on Thu May 05, 2011 9:32 am

As I have said before there is nothing wrong with what he wanted to achieve, but what he offered as proof that his theory is correct was full of errors and in places was completely counter to the way things work.

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